Chase Bays Braking Troubleshooting
If you're having issues bleeding your brakes or getting good pedal feel with our Brake Booster Eliminator, you've come to the right place. There are some key factors that need to be looked over to ensure your bases are covered. Before doing anything, read and acknowledge the following:
• All caliper bleeder ports bled - Many calipers have 2 or more
• No visible leaks to be found anywhere
• Use an EBC Yellow/Hawk HP+/Wilwood BP10 or equivalent compound pad - If you're using further compound race pad, know that the more race oriented the bad...the worse the cold bite. We see it so often where people buy the highest level Hawk racing pad for a drift car and have terrible braking. These pads have to be heated up for laps in order to start working. Any drift car should use the pads listed.
• Calipers mounted right-side-up - Upside down calipers = huge air pockets
• Adjustable Bias Valve plumbed to rear line only - If you buy our Brake Line Relocation you're set...but if you make your own lines be cautious of this.
• OEM rear splitter/bias valve removed IF using an Adjustable Bias Valve - Some cars have joining blocks that act as pressure reducers to Bias / Proportion the rear brakes. You can stick a 3/16 drill bit in there to make sure its not a restrictor fitting. If it passes through...you're good. If it doesn't then you need to eliminate the joining block. Otherwise you'll be getting little to no pressure at the rear calipers.
• We recommend Motul RBF600 or equivalent brake fluid
Now that your bases are covered, let's talk through the proper bleeding and bedding procedure.
Now that your bases are covered, let's talk through the proper bleeding and bedding procedure.
All Caliper Bleeder Ports Bled
The first thing we suggest doing in terms of taking action when troubleshooting braking issues is making sure the Master Cylinder is properly bled. The best way is to bench bleed...no, you don't have to take it off the car and put it on a bench. Simply take some line from the outlet port(s) of the MC and route them back into the reservoir. The outlet of the hose should be completely (keyword: completely) submerged in fluid. Pump the brakes for 30 cycles and it should be obvious the MC is pushing fluid out well.
Once the MC is bled properly, then we move on to normal bleeding to all 4 corners of the car.
1) Start at the furthest caliper from the MC - usually the passenger rear caliper. Grab a pal and decide who is going to do what. One person at the pedal to pump and keep an eye on fluid, and the other at the caliper.
1) Start at the furthest caliper from the MC - usually the passenger rear caliper. Grab a pal and decide who is going to do what. One person at the pedal to pump and keep an eye on fluid, and the other at the caliper.
2) The pedal person will need to pump the pedal 10-15 times, let his foot off the pedal completely, and let the caliper person know they have done their part.
3) The caliper person will then open the bleeder screw on the caliper and let the pedal person know to push.
4) The pedal person will then press the pedal to the floor and hold it. While it is on the floor the caliper person will tighten the bleeder screw.
This bleeding process will get air out of the system in a quicker time period. Once you start seeing the new fluid, do an additional 3 cycles for good measure.
3) The caliper person will then open the bleeder screw on the caliper and let the pedal person know to push.
4) The pedal person will then press the pedal to the floor and hold it. While it is on the floor the caliper person will tighten the bleeder screw.
This bleeding process will get air out of the system in a quicker time period. Once you start seeing the new fluid, do an additional 3 cycles for good measure.
Bedding the Pads
Once the system is properly bled as stated, it is time to take it for a drive to properly bed the rotors. Bedding is VERY important for creating a 100% surface area for the pad. If at all possible, the rotors should be resurfaced when you replace the pads.
• Perform 4 medium stops from 45mph. Slightly more aggressive than normal braking. You don't need to come to a complete stop for each pass. This brings the brake rotors up to temperature so they are not exposed to sudden thermal shock.
• Make 15 aggressive stops from 45mph down to 5mph. For this set of semi-stops, you want to be firm and aggressive, but not to the point where ABS activates and the wheels lock up (if you have ABS). It's important to note that you don't come to a complete stop but rather a semi-stop (~15mph). Accelerate back up to 60mph as soon as you slowed down to your semi-stop.
• Perform 4 medium stops from 45mph. Slightly more aggressive than normal braking. You don't need to come to a complete stop for each pass. This brings the brake rotors up to temperature so they are not exposed to sudden thermal shock.
• Make 15 aggressive stops from 45mph down to 5mph. For this set of semi-stops, you want to be firm and aggressive, but not to the point where ABS activates and the wheels lock up (if you have ABS). It's important to note that you don't come to a complete stop but rather a semi-stop (~15mph). Accelerate back up to 60mph as soon as you slowed down to your semi-stop.
• The brake pads and brake rotors are extremely hot at this point and sitting on one point will imprint the pad material onto the surface unevenly. This can cause vibration and uneven braking.
• You may notice that your brakes will start fading, and sometimes smoke, after the 6th or 7th pass. This fade will stabilize and will gradually recess once your brakes have cooled down to normal operating temperatures. Drive carefully as your brakes may feel softer for the next few minutes.
• Try not to come to a complete stop and find a stretch of road where you can coast for 5-10 minutes, preferably without using your brakes.
Pedal Feels Bad? Brakes Locking Up?
• Try not to come to a complete stop and find a stretch of road where you can coast for 5-10 minutes, preferably without using your brakes.
Pedal Feels Bad? Brakes Locking Up?
In some cases, we have seen 1 or multiple calipers on a car to become stuck in the locked position. This will cause the pads to drag the rotors, burn through the pads, and possibly warp the rotor. Worst case is the car cannot move at all. This is caused by a leak in the system drawing in air and allowing the fluid to depressurize in the line going to the caliper. There can be a microscopic leak of air, that cannot be seen or heard upon visual inspection. We have even found casting errors in an MC that allowed air to enter the system and depressurize all the lines.
If your brakes are locking up too easily, we recommend doing so with a friend outside of the car to watch which set of wheels lock up first. This can be solved by adjusting the Bias Valve to allow all 4 wheels to slow the car down at once, rather than locking up the front or rear only.
If you feel like reading more, enjoy more knowledge!
Our 2 most common issues with braking setups are proper bleeding and pad choice. If the system isn't properly bled, you are essentially using air to stop a car. That will not end well in any case, so we always make sure the bleed again and again until you are sure. We have bled personal cars of ours for well over a decade using the technique above, and it works wonders. The fluid choice matters due to the temperature range of the fluid is increased with nicer fluid. If you step up to the RBF660 or higher quality race fluid, you will need to change your fluid out within closer intervals. Nicer fluid such as RBF660 can actually form air pockets/bubbles over time, and this can lead to a worse pedal feel. RBF600 series fluid does the same thing, it just takes much longer to do so.
Pad choice is just as important, especially when it comes to the BBE. The OE booster moved fluid from the OEMC exponentially - meaning that what you put in at the pedal is translated to exponentially more fluid pressure at the calipers. 50% of the throw of the pedal gives a lot more than 50% of fluid movement. The BBE, on the other hand, is linear. It can still apply 100% braking pressure and effectiveness, but the throw becomes easier to modulate during those split second decisions on track and on the street. This is relevant to pad choice for 2 reasons - an OE setup with a booster can stop the car just fine with almost any pad you put in it. The excessive fluid pressure can push the pad into the rotor and stop regardless of compound. With a BBE, the fluid is linear, so you need a pad with a good cold bite and a decent temperature range.
That being said, we have seen some customers source higher end race pads and attempt to use them on the street with a BBE. This is not the better option, as the BBE needs a pad with a solid cold bite. Most race pads require a fair amount of heat to get to their operating temperature, and this is not optimal for street use or use for the BBE. We always stick to what works best, and after years of trying different compounds, calipers, MC sizes, etc. we have found that a good happy medium of EBC Yellow or Hawk HP+ works best with our BBE.